Finally Hyman in 1997 conducted very rigorous research which showed that child abuse is much less prevalent in Sweden, spanking is view as abuse by the vast majority of parents, and that delinquent behavior (measured by academics, jailing, etc) continues to decrease in Sweden. The EU conducted similar studies on the effects of the German, Italian, etc spanking ban… and the results are the same. Combined with the fact that spanking leads to more aggressive behavior, lower IQ, etc… this is why the American Pediatric Association finally spoke out against it in the late 90s. Why… because the empirical evidence is overwhelmingly against spanking.

You say the end result is what matters. Look at the USA compared to Europe. The statistics on rape, burglary, assault, and murder are much higher than Sweden. For a nation that doesn’t “discipline” their children… their young adults seem especially civilized.

You then go to counter empirical evidence with anecdotal evidence. Guess what, my parents were against spanking… and I am in medical school with my sister in law school and my oldest brother owning his own business.

And I love how you quote a proverb from Solomon… who’s son was a tyrant.

Speaking In Tongues Part A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6fIUpvZUI

God bless,
Mick

But people who practice homosexuality with NO repentance and even trying to use the scriptures to justify their abominable acts are clearly NOT CHRISTIANS! They are defiant and of a reprobate mind.

In reviewing your description of how to be saved, I mostly agree (I’d certainly add, “believe in the LIFE and TEACHINGS of Jesus, along with his death and resurrection, but perhaps you meant that…). So, we agree upon that part.

But then it seems to me that you’re adding an additional works-based hoop through which to jump. You seem to be saying that one has to admit they’re a sinner, ask forgiveness, make Jesus Lord of their life AND AGREE with the traditional church teaching on issues surrounding homosexuality. Perhaps that’s not what you’re saying, but it’s what it sounds like you’re saying.

Could you clarify?

The reason I ask is that I know plenty of Christians in the traditional sense (myself included) who have been saved by God’s grace through faith in Jesus, the Christ who sincerely desire to walk in Jesus’ steps, according to Scripture, and who take the Bible very seriously as God’s revelation to us.

We’ve studied the scripture and come to a different conclusion than you have on this one particular “sin” (what you consider a sin, which I don’t).

Do you think a person has to be “right” on every sin (ie, have perfect knowledge of all possible right and wrong actions in their life) in order to be saved, too? That would seem to be a pretty tall order. It is my belief, and my church’s belief, that God’s grace covers our misunderstandings. That someone can be sincerely mistaken about an action and still be saved, albeit wrong about that action.

You’re not saying that a person has to have perfect knowledge of all sin, are you?

As far as parents go, leaving children alone, because we think they are saintly, as was done on the movie, is terribly naive and even arrogant. I remember hearing about a pastor and his wife, going out of town to a convention of some sort, and leaving their children home. Because the older children were at home, which were about 17 or 18 years old, I guess they thought it would be okay. Well, one of the children, who was about the age of 12, lost her virginity, right under the nose of the two elder siblings. This pastor, his wife, and the two older siblings were entirely clueless. The 12 year old ended up missing her menstrual cycle by a couple of days or so. She was scared she was pregnant. It just so happened that she was not. To top it off, years later, the mother became pastor after the father died (I am getting to a point) and had the nerve to stand up in the pulpit and declare with certainty that all of her daughters were virgins. How embarrassingly sad for that pastor and mother that she, after all of those years, was clueless as to her daughters’ behavior. It turns out that none of them were virgins. How about that?

My point here is that we cannot leave our children alone. It doesn’t work. We can’t even leave them around certain people who “we” think are responsible. The endorphins which are released during even the fondling part of sexual activity are entirely too strong for us to imagine that our children can fight that sort of thing off. They will not be able to withstand that. They will cave into it, whether we believe it or not. This is why it is essential that we not allow our children to be alone with each other without a chaperone. Old fashioned or not, it works. Hope this helps. Blessings!

Sadly, Tonex (aka Brian Slade) is just another example of this self-centered self-fulfilling false worship of God and all we can do is continue praying for him and others like him when they refuse to adhere to God’s true word.